Physical Damage

[NiteHawk]

This is the current damage values. They are way too high for physical right now though. Let's list them though.

Tests would be at level 25 with 20 strength. Bonus is with, so 15% more. Need to test maximum output here. All weapons are brill (since that is the scroll enchanters can create) and all blesses. Classes are listed from most powerful in physical DPS to less. Classes might be listed more then once if something effects it, like duel wielding.

Split like this

CLASS NAME = MIN DAMAGE - MAX DAMAGE -- ANY SPECIAL SKILLS -- MAX NORMAL HITS IF ALL HIT SUCCESSFULLY -- MAX SPECIAL SKILLS IF ALL HIT SUCCESSFULLY

Class
Barbarian (DW) = 251 - 336 -- MAX RAGE 504 -- MAX NORMAL HITS DAMAGE (x4) 1344. MAX RAGE HITS DAMAGE (x4) 2016
Barbarian (Shield) = 228 - 306 -- MAX RAGE 459 -- MAX NORMAL HITS DAMAGE (x4) 1224. MAX RAGE HITS DAMAGE (x4) 1836
Knight = 222 - 298 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 1192
Druid (Morphed Cat) = 195 - 273 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 1092
Paladin = 195 - 261 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 1044
Monk = 186 - 223 --- MAX RH 446 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 1115 --- MAX DAMAGE WITH ROUNDHOUSES (two roundhouses, is possible) 1561
Ranger = 189 - 217 --- Has a pet that often does 70-130 damage (around) -- MAX NORMAL HITS 868 -- AVERAGE DAMAGE WITH PET 1118
Bard = 152 - 204 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 816
Assassin (DW) = 126-173 --- MAX BS 692 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 692 -- TWO BACKSTABS 1384
Assassin (Shield) = 114 - 157 --- MAX BS 628 -- MAX NORMAL HITS 628 -- TWO BACKSTABS 1256
Thief = 108 - 149 -- MAX BS 447 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 447 --- TWO BACKSTABS 894
Necromancer = 98 - 136 -- 544
Sorcerer = 93 - 128 -- 512
Cleric = 88 - 123 --- 492

Please ignore magic damage for now. That is for another topic.

The thing is zerkers and the like often don't just have 20 STR. So it scales higher, alot more higher. It's a bit messy.

Obviously as you see here this is pretty high values for alot of classes. Feel free to chime in guys.

[NiteHawk]

I think the scaling is too high on the higher end, the lower end are OK but need to be lowered slightly. Assassin damage is OK too for backstabbing I believe.

[NiteHawk]

This is the proposed starting changes. Again done with 20 STR with bonus on div. Maybe it's too low, but taking input now.:

Changes:
Barbarian RAGE: 25% set, rather then a value between 25% to 50%.
RANGERS: Remember pet damage, and also they will get fun arrows later.


Barbarian (DW) = 189-253 --- MAX RAGE 316 --- 3 NORMAL+1 RAGE ATTACK 1075 --- 4 SUCCESSFUL RAGES 1265
Barbarian (Shield) = 173-230 --- MAX RAGE 287 --- 3 NORMAL+1 RAGE ATTACK 977 --- 4 SUCCESSFUL RAGES 1148
Knight = 167-224 --- 4 NORMAL ATTACK 896
Druid (Morphed Cat) = 155-217 -- 4 NORMAL ATTACK 868
Paladin = 157-210 -- 4 NORMAL ATTACK 868
Monk = 146-175 --- MAX RH 350 --- 3 NORMAL+2 RH (max you could get) 1225
Bard = 147-197 (no change really, their damage was kinda low to begin with) --- 4 NORMAL ATTACK 788
Ranger = 158 - 182 --- Has a pet that often does 70-125 damage (average 2-3 attacks) (around) -- MAX NORMAL HITS 728 -- 4 NORMAL ATTACKS WITH WITH PET 3 HITS 1103
Assassin (DW) = 126-173 --- MAX BS 692 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 692 -- TWO BACKSTABS 1384 (no change)
Assassin (Shield) = 114 - 157 --- MAX BS 628 -- MAX NORMAL HITS 628 -- TWO BACKSTABS 1256 (no change)
Thief = 108 - 149 -- MAX BS 447 --- MAX NORMAL HITS 447 --- TWO BACKSTABS 894 (no change)
Necromancer = 89-122
Sorcerer = 83-114
Cleric = 78-110


This is again, with 20 STR. Your classes will do more damage with more STR but this seems more fair I think.

[NiteHawk]

This is for the new changes, just adding some more insight with higher STR.

This is with 23 STR, Means you have lower AGI, and we need to balance AGI, and Armor anyways. Again this is WITH DIV. So the numbers should be slightly higher then you'd think.

BARB (DW): 217-291 -- RAGE MAX 363
KNIGHT: 192-257
Monk: 168-201 -- RH MAX 402
Assassin (DW): 141-199 --- BACKSTAB MAX 796
Thief: 125-172 --- BACKSTAB 515


This is with 21 str, which I think is probably the max that these classes would do for a decent character. Maybe I missed something but we'll see
Paladin: 165-221
Bard: 154-207
Ranger: 166-192
Druid: 163-228


I'm thinking about adding one more arrow that gives +1 more max on top of the max arrow too making rangers 173-192. Their damage is meant to be overall lower but better average.

One problem I see is that maybe I need to take into account two handed weapons for the classes I want to have it. For zerkers, it'll be aritifical and similar to DW'ing. Knights should have it too, but I think then THEIR max strength should be as it is above, 192-257 with 23 STR. I'd think I'd do something similar and remove 10% damage when not using a two handed weapon then.

I don't see any other then those two using two handed weapons, I'm not sure it's worth it to even add though.

[NiteHawk]

I also think this puts it alot more inline with spell damage too, and how it should be. For leveling, if the HP is too high we can lower it on monsters to accommodate for it, but we'll see.

[NiteHawk]

In PVP your damage negation will be between 15%-25% less damage as we've said in the Armor post.

For PVE I am still not sure if monsters should have passive armor yet. At least it should be limited.. Alot less then it is now. Zombies shouldn't be negating 60 damage etc.

[Aftershock]

If you lower the damage the monsters will need adjusting in some places but then you may aswel leave them as they are.
Some classes should be stronger than others especially magic.

Personally I think the whole game is a little too easy.

[Rodeo]

With me and Fled doing a few duels we both hit alot vs each other at 25 and the fights were over way to quick. That's one of the things about pvp in rok was a missed round and a chance for redemption was always awesome. But yea ninjas hit way to often and for alot slayers seem fine zerkers I haven't fought any yet. But from ninja vs ninja it just seems to fast.

[NiteHawk]

With me and Fled doing a few duels we both hit alot vs each other at 25 and the fights were over way to quick. That's one of the things about pvp in rok was a missed round and a chance for redemption was always awesome. But yea ninjas hit way to often and for alot slayers seem fine zerkers I haven't fought any yet. But from ninja vs ninja it just seems to fast.

Yeah this is kind of more of a dodge issue too for hit rate. But yeah when everyones hitting a bit too often it's easy to slam people in a couple rounds at the moment.

Right now if you are both ninjas with same str and agi, it would be 50%. If the damage rate is 1100-1600 per round, then ultimately you'll average half of that per round, so 550-800. Meaning it will probably end way to quick. I don't think 50% is a good start rate in all honesty.

Monster damage could stay the same or be adjusted to be harder, but PVE is alot easier to balance then PVP anyways.

[Folder]

This is for the new changes, just adding some more insight with higher STR.

This is with 23 STR, Means you have lower AGI, and we need to balance AGI, and Armor anyways. Again this is WITH DIV. So the numbers should be slightly higher then you'd think.

BARB (DW): 217-291 -- RAGE MAX 363
KNIGHT: 192-257
Monk: 168-201 -- RH MAX 402
Assassin (DW): 141-199 --- BACKSTAB MAX 796
Thief: 125-172 --- BACKSTAB 515


This is with 21 str, which I think is probably the max that these classes would do for a decent character. Maybe I missed something but we'll see
Paladin: 165-221
Bard: 154-207
Ranger: 166-192
Druid: 163-228


I'm thinking about adding one more arrow that gives +1 more max on top of the max arrow too making rangers 173-192. Their damage is meant to be overall lower but better average.

One problem I see is that maybe I need to take into account two handed weapons for the classes I want to have it. For zerkers, it'll be aritifical and similar to DW'ing. Knights should have it too, but I think then THEIR max strength should be as it is above, 192-257 with 23 STR. I'd think I'd do something similar and remove 10% damage when not using a two handed weapon then.

I don't see any other then those two using two handed weapons, I'm not sure it's worth it to even add though.

Most people won't be making 23 str characters, I'd recommend balancing around 22 for those, 20 or 21 for monks maybe since they are going to want maybe +1 agi. Sacrifices are pretty steep for 23 str, like half orcs being such low agi or wrecked by magic.

25% RAGE bonus - good, 50% was nuts.

Your druid with 21 str is what strength morphed, and is that cat damage? A cat druid should be doing more damage than a paladin but less than a barb, knight or monk I'd think.

Paladins should be on the low end of the spectrum imo because of their heals.

Did you up the minimum on slayers? They need a boost to minimum backstabs imo. I've hit people for ~250 with a backstab, neutral with 22 str. That can be 1 hit from a knight or barb.

Overall these changes look solid and we'll need to play with them more once they are in.