Lat mentioned this in another thread but let's discuss it here. Monks are too strong right now imo.
As was mentioned...4 attacks, best MR, best dodge, cheapest to equip, there's really zero downside to them right now. Their damage per attack is also pretty damn high.
We weren't really seeing monk domination at 25 with oad gear so I'm not sure anything needs to be done, but worth looking at I think.
Monks
Re: Monks
Personally, and this isnt because I play monk, but I think their damage sucks. I miss A LOT and hit for under 100 most of the time with a mid 100's rh every now and then, but I do know once 25, they connect more often, so I guess it evens out? lol
Re: Monks
I'd prefer wiating until we have 25'ers before we make major balance changes.
Monks are far easier to level, but the damage boost they gain per level is lower then other classes. They deal the least damage but obviously have one extra attack which balances them out. They are easier at lower levels then most classes by far due to the above.
They also get the monk hand damage bonus, which obviously is nice at lower levels. If it's too high to start you can always adjust the monk hand bonus per level, it starts off at 8 and ends at 13. It can be adjusted to be whatever. They could start off with a lower bonus, for example.
But yeah, again, need to wait until 25'ers start coming out. Balancing at the moment might be a bit early, though if they are OK at high level but op at lower, then again, hand bonus/etc could be adjusted.
Monks are far easier to level, but the damage boost they gain per level is lower then other classes. They deal the least damage but obviously have one extra attack which balances them out. They are easier at lower levels then most classes by far due to the above.
They also get the monk hand damage bonus, which obviously is nice at lower levels. If it's too high to start you can always adjust the monk hand bonus per level, it starts off at 8 and ends at 13. It can be adjusted to be whatever. They could start off with a lower bonus, for example.
But yeah, again, need to wait until 25'ers start coming out. Balancing at the moment might be a bit early, though if they are OK at high level but op at lower, then again, hand bonus/etc could be adjusted.
Re: Monks
Yea its hard to say right now its prob good to wait.
The reason i brought it up was because i just dont see a counter to them. I think they could stand to lose the wis bonus that would atleast put them in line with other physical combat. right now they out dodge and out hit all which is fine because their damage is a bit low? althought i think 5 attacks and a 2x attack in there puts them above most. on top of that atleast casters can counter the other physical classes but with monk you dont even need to invest in wis because its already there bonus you can just dump all your stats offensive.
again best to wait but at low levels they dominate everything even casters when they only have 10-14wis
The reason i brought it up was because i just dont see a counter to them. I think they could stand to lose the wis bonus that would atleast put them in line with other physical combat. right now they out dodge and out hit all which is fine because their damage is a bit low? althought i think 5 attacks and a 2x attack in there puts them above most. on top of that atleast casters can counter the other physical classes but with monk you dont even need to invest in wis because its already there bonus you can just dump all your stats offensive.
again best to wait but at low levels they dominate everything even casters when they only have 10-14wis
Re: Monks
If monks end up being 'ok' at level 25 once we have proper OAD gear in, then we need to look at the way they scale.
Right now for exampe, they start with a +8 weapon bonus and it scales to +13 at level 25. +1 per 4 levels. The idea here would be to scale THIS part down, for example, it could start at +4 weapon bonus instead and scale up to +9. Then the missing +4 would go into staves themselves (so stave weapons would get a boost.). This means that the damage would scale lower but ramp up.
They are MEANT to deal lower damage, because they deal an extra damage. You can claim 'my knight hits for 200 damage, but my monk only deals 150 damage!'. You cannot say that exactly because its 200x4=800, vs 150x5=750. Pretty similar though (but still... overall monks SHOULD do lower damage with 5 attacks in exchange for hitting more often.)
The other solution to help this along is to either make them dodge more, or have a better hitrate, but not both. I am mixed onto what would be better though to keep if that would be the case. Or the actual AGI gain can be changed. Maybe they don't even need a bonus because they have amazing MR etc.
Or maybe they need lower overall damage. But I feel like the damage is not so much the issue here?
I think overall MONKS will have to be balanced, maybe we should do it sooner than later. I don't really know yet, I'm trying to avoid this right now but tons of people are playing monks and I assume it is obviously because they are decent characters to use. Technically I think some classes (druids for example) are better, though there is more to micro manage with them.)
I'm also not sure why people aren't playing zerkers like they were pre-wipe. They haven't changed at all, they are still powerhouses anyways. I think for example, people have hyped up Monks and instead of playing for themselves, they just go with monks and think 'BEST IS BEST'. Don't get me wrong, they are a good class, but I do think it got out of hand with people picking them just from word of mouth.
P.S. I dont' think removing their wis bonus is good. That's the only thing that makes them more unique than other classes. Otherwise they are just another fighter class that gets dominated by spells. I think other mechanics on them should be changed so they stay a unique type of fighter.
Right now for exampe, they start with a +8 weapon bonus and it scales to +13 at level 25. +1 per 4 levels. The idea here would be to scale THIS part down, for example, it could start at +4 weapon bonus instead and scale up to +9. Then the missing +4 would go into staves themselves (so stave weapons would get a boost.). This means that the damage would scale lower but ramp up.
They are MEANT to deal lower damage, because they deal an extra damage. You can claim 'my knight hits for 200 damage, but my monk only deals 150 damage!'. You cannot say that exactly because its 200x4=800, vs 150x5=750. Pretty similar though (but still... overall monks SHOULD do lower damage with 5 attacks in exchange for hitting more often.)
The other solution to help this along is to either make them dodge more, or have a better hitrate, but not both. I am mixed onto what would be better though to keep if that would be the case. Or the actual AGI gain can be changed. Maybe they don't even need a bonus because they have amazing MR etc.
Or maybe they need lower overall damage. But I feel like the damage is not so much the issue here?
I think overall MONKS will have to be balanced, maybe we should do it sooner than later. I don't really know yet, I'm trying to avoid this right now but tons of people are playing monks and I assume it is obviously because they are decent characters to use. Technically I think some classes (druids for example) are better, though there is more to micro manage with them.)
I'm also not sure why people aren't playing zerkers like they were pre-wipe. They haven't changed at all, they are still powerhouses anyways. I think for example, people have hyped up Monks and instead of playing for themselves, they just go with monks and think 'BEST IS BEST'. Don't get me wrong, they are a good class, but I do think it got out of hand with people picking them just from word of mouth.
P.S. I dont' think removing their wis bonus is good. That's the only thing that makes them more unique than other classes. Otherwise they are just another fighter class that gets dominated by spells. I think other mechanics on them should be changed so they stay a unique type of fighter.
Re: Monks
I prefer monk because I like defence over offence, mainly because when I am levelling I am doing other stuff (reading, watching something, supervising kids). With monks I do not need to worry so much about alt dying because I was sidetracked and I'm sitting on a spawn spot. I have noticed though that there are a LOT of monks running around... That usually means people have decided their the shitz (kinda like old rok lings). Their also less focused on gear (in my opinion anyway) and I'm a cheap bastage 
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Re: Monks
My barb will, eventually, level up.
eventually.
Will say, made a monk to see what all the rage was about. Leveling at low levels is surprisingly easier.
Say, can barbarians be given the skill "astrophysics"? It doesn't have to do anything, but might make me feel better about being an idiot barbarian.
eventually.
Will say, made a monk to see what all the rage was about. Leveling at low levels is surprisingly easier.
Say, can barbarians be given the skill "astrophysics"? It doesn't have to do anything, but might make me feel better about being an idiot barbarian.
Re: Monks
Drasp wrote:My barb will, eventually, level up.
eventually.
Will say, made a monk to see what all the rage was about. Leveling at low levels is surprisingly easier.
Say, can barbarians be given the skill "astrophysics"? It doesn't have to do anything, but might make me feel better about being an idiot barbarian.
Yeah it is due to the monk damage, I probably need to adjust it to scale differently with same end game damage results. Thing is I suppose, that items are locked, it isn't like ROK, so having a rather high base value to start with might be too much.
Re: Monks
Toe be quite fair I think that the +2 agi thing being taken away would solve everything. Like I posted in the other thread, they kind of just get everything and it's all for free. Just normalize their Agi like every other character and they would still be powerhouses. The MR is at 15% right? The second highest is sorc at 12% then cleric at 8% right? I don't see why Monks have more magic resist than ACTUAL spell casters. Why not take it down a notch to 10% and take away the +2 effective agi? boom, problem solved. Or at least seems like it would be a very good starting point. I also like the idea of lowering their starting dmg and pushing it in to staves if need be, but dmg doesn't seem to be the problem like you said. ^_^
Just my 2c! If you did those changes and needed something else to compensate, why not add a neat leveling ability like "Meditate". It could allow you to heal X amount over X seconds and exhaust all your stamina for the round.
Or at least seems like it would be a very good starting point. I also like the idea of lowering their starting dmg and pushing it in to staves if need be, but dmg doesn't seem to be the problem like you said. ^_^Just my 2c! If you did those changes and needed something else to compensate, why not add a neat leveling ability like "Meditate". It could allow you to heal X amount over X seconds and exhaust all your stamina for the round.
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