Tomb caught botting and is now a Staff Member?

[iced]

disclaimer since i got the page snipe: i'm not advocating for tomb/metzger. i don't know him. i do not advocate for any of the staff members as i have no intention of getting to know them, either. i am here because i support chris, and i offer advice and recommendations on security and interpersonal matters. what i am advocating for is faith in chris to do the right thing, and make the right call, for the future of his project and the community. i watched rok get torn apart by corruption despite my best attempts to point it in the right direction, i don't feel like watching that again, so if i believe chris starts going down that path, you're damned right i will be the first one calling him out publicly, friend or not.

sup dunky. i was looking for the heart smilie but it doesn't exist here.

Thing is, that "if something happens" seems more likely in a situation like this.

who is saying that it's more likely now? the "if something happens" is always there, which is why every action staff accounts take are monitored and logged; it is no greater now than it was a week ago. he is aware of the losses he will experience should he choose to step over the boundary set before him. as are all individuals chris has brought into the fold to build the game world, and every single one is under just as much scrutiny.

Not to mention wasn't he the first 25er? Haters will say its fake.

those same haters probably have more of a life than him, which means he had and has more free time. seriously, dude has no life.

Haters will say its fake.

people were complaining that the monk update was made specifically to benefit one clan over another. someone even said that his character was specifically modified to gain exp at a lower rate than other people. people will always find something to complain about. but again, consider trusting someone who has been open to suggestion from neutral parties in better securing the integrity of the game world and has put in locks to prevent unauthorized modifications from happening to benefit any one person or group. someone will always claim there is fraud and abuse.

i was the biggest advocate against a great majority of what was done in rok, and with good reason, and look how that turned out. but rok also suffered from nepotism, unchecked, and in an environment where the owner and creator did not care, ie, willfully ignorant.

[dunky]

I like how open and transparent he's been about most things, and I have faith in NiteHawk to do what he thinks is right. I just don't always have faith that what he thinks is right is actually so because people make mistakes. A known week 1 botter who also happened to be the first max level (currently) character gets promoted to staff? That's be a terrible start for a brand new game to have so early in it's lifetime, especially when people will already have worry of corruption from RoK (regardless if they should since this game isn't affiliated with RoK outside of peoples' familiar names). I'm not trying to stir the pot, just advocating against the whole thing.

[Mujahideen]

lol



-EDIT I ADDED POPCORN CAUSE IT WAS AN IMPORTANT ICON - NH

[NiteHawk]

I don't really think you need to worry about corruption as theres no true way of abusing the system in place. They cannot simply make items or rooms and suddenly they will work in game, because it doesn't work like that. I chose to pretty much be the last line of checking regardless for this reason too. I know how ROK worked and I aimed to be better when it came to security. All staffers are logged rather 'in your face' and that's how it is going to be, regardless if they like it or not.

Let's have a little story.

Several years back, when was a general player in ROK, I did some stupid things myself. As someone who looks at coding all day, I obviously know how botting works, and can make some stupidly complicated systems to make things work. It was apparent to admins (primarily Doug) what I was doing and who I was. I did stop when I was told and was dealt with, but obviously I've done what I had done and that's how it was.

Fast forward a couple months ahead, I started doing events on my own because it was lacking on ROK, I did several events, 3-5 a week. I ended up doing it typically out of my own pocket or OADs I had lying around. I didn't expect to get in due to my past, but it was what it was, and I did enjoy doing them. Doug approached me eventually and offered a event staffer position. I could tell he was weary at doing it due to the history, but he saw that I put alot of hours into events and saw that I did want to improve and help the game. I think he understood me though and he wanted to give me a chance despite the past. It was not like I just requested the position, I put hard work into it and busted my ass to get there. I waited to be approached, and if it didn't happen, then it was what it was.

After the position though, I tried to be as fair as I could with everyone, I helped do alot of things as event staffers, such as create the base token system. I also was approached, due to my knowledge of coding, to make a bot. A bot that did events. I made Kaosbot, the biggest automation whore in history. He was advanced enough to monitor and run mosh style events, and he was nearing completion to even running TGC by the end. Having him calculate and figure out what could happen and how he should respond was a big task. He obviously also did little things such as food/water, auction, random number, that sort of stuff. I really enjoyed making him though because coding is generally fun to me.

In the end I was promoted to admin, but it was pretty much already at the last limbs. It lasted a little while, but then got overrun by hackers who could crash the server to no end, make characters with 50+ agi, that sort of thing... Throughout my whole time as a staffer I've always attempted to be fair and right when it comes to this sort of stuff. I vowed never do anything that jeopardized my position as a staff member, and to try to improve the game as much as I could, though with ROK, it was always limited on what we could due to the access we have.

None of this probably would not of happened if Doug didn't take a chance on me, EO probably wouldn't of existed, I probably wouldn't of hung around in ROK except to chat here and there. I wouldn't of learned the knowledge that I have now when it comes to game coding. So that's why I always give people an one extra chance, despite people screaming to linch them and ban them forever on the first go.

---

Continuing on, I see how Metzger has been working, he's put 100's of hours into the world editor he has been working on. It's a huge project and task to do it, and he's been doing a great job of it. He recently (as stated before) also is working on a large OAD area that was very impressive. It will be very interesting to see run. It's something he done regardless of if he was going to get into staff or not, he didn't care about the position, but he wanted to help the game out as much as he could with the abilities he had. He wasn't some random pick that I did or favoritism. I would of not given him any look if he just applied like a bum with not proving anything to me. Despite that, I wanted to give him a chance, and I did so under my own accord. This does not mean I've lowered my guard on him or trust him blindly, I know that some people change, and others will not. It is also of no risk right now to give him a shot after all the work he has done. I would also hope that someone who has put hundreds of hours into a few projects would probably smarten up a bit. Based on his current work as of late, I do not believe I will regret it. His work has already sped up progress 3-4x when designing an area. I do wish I could show the world editor, because it is cool.

He has already said he would relinquish his staff member and just continue working on everything on his own because of the issues here, but no, I don't want that. I think he deserves a chance, he has put alot of work into it, he deserves a chance to prove to you guys what he can do. So the only thing I can ask is to give him a shot, and relax a little, keep playing the game if you enjoy it. Wait to see what he produces, see if you like it and I will watch him closely. I would not let what happened to ROK happen here, period. I however, do not think it will come to that and I do think he is working towards helping the game as best as he can.

My decisions are neutral through this. I am not affiliated with any guild. I do not really talk to people out of game. This is what I think is best at this time.

[Rodeo]

I think that most players think his initial punishment wasn't harsh enough and with him being #1 that it was kinda like spitting in the eyes of everyone else who grinded legit to obtain the coveted rank of 25. Obviously he has skills which should be taken into consideration. But you can't blame the playerbase for being upset with what has happened it's a normal response.

I really have opinion on the matter that he's staff.

But most people who cheat Will do it again if given a chance.

Last thing anyone from the old rok community wants to see is this turn into ROK. Thats the message I am taking away from it.

[Folder]

Yay story time!

I think my only possible issue is a conflict of interest with oad areas and staff's "normal" characters guilds. If someone is designing an oad area all the secrets to figuring it out need to be kept from their normal characters guild obviously. That's a big thing to trust someone with and I'm fine with seeing how that plays out, but it's worth considering is all I'm saying.

[Kenichi]

[Thi]

All things considered, if he regrets his actions and intends to change, everyone deserves a second chance.

Yay story time!

I think my only possible issue is a conflict of interest with oad areas and staff's "normal" characters guilds. If someone is designing an oad area all the secrets to figuring it out need to be kept from their normal characters guild obviously. That's a big thing to trust someone with and I'm fine with seeing how that plays out, but it's worth considering is all I'm saying.

From all that has been said, this is the only concern I have left as well, seeing its complicated to disassociate from the Game/your achievements and your responsibilities as Staff.

[NiteHawk]

Yay story time!

I think my only possible issue is a conflict of interest with oad areas and staff's "normal" characters guilds. If someone is designing an oad area all the secrets to figuring it out need to be kept from their normal characters guild obviously. That's a big thing to trust someone with and I'm fine with seeing how that plays out, but it's worth considering is all I'm saying.

I agree, but I don't think using a script vs leaking information in game are the same thing. I think your conflict holds true to any staffer to be honest that is in a clan, not just one person. However, if anyone leaked it they would be gone, doesn't matter whom it is. Almost all the builders are working on OAD areas now. I would think and hope that most staffers would want their OADs being fun and exciting, as when someone finds out how to do it, it will eventually become stale. But while it is being discovered, it can be fun, even if its weeks, or months.

Typically people who make the OAD shouldn't run it until it is run and broken a few times. Not that this has anything to do with leaking, but it's another level of protection.

I typically do not allow the OAD maps to be posted in the builders area, because I don't want builders sharing that information amongst each other. They can describe it, how it will work, etc. But the maps are between me, the head builder, and the map creator only. It is not public build information to ensure that no one leaks it because I find from ROK it's never the map creator that leaks the information. It's others around that seem to give in to temptation. Not that I don't trust anyone, I just would prefer not having that issue dangling in front of everyone as bait for no reason.

I think if someone were to leak, it would come out one way or another, it normally always does through conflicts or drama about what one player did to another player, etc. I hope this will never be the case, but I think all staffers have the same equal risk. I have to watch it and make sure to deal with issues as fast as I can.

I think that most players think his initial punishment wasn't harsh enough and with him being #1 that it was kinda like spitting in the eyes of everyone else who grinded legit to obtain the coveted rank of 25. Obviously he has skills which should be taken into consideration. But you can't blame the playerbase for being upset with what has happened it's a normal response.

Last thing anyone from the old rok community wants to see is this turn into ROK. Thats the message I am taking away from it.

I agree about the ROK bit, you all must know that I don't want 'this to be another ROK'. Again, he did get his shit removed, but his actual first 25'er was legit. All I can say is wait and see, I think it will be up to him to prove himself and I think he will. There's not much else I can say other than that.

[Folder]

All fair points sir, thanks for being mindful of the situation.