Slayers and how to fix.

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Boon » Sat May 12, 2018 12:39 am

Rodeo wrote:Right now we have ran into a road block with slayers being the only rounding class atm.
I know alot of us are old RoK slayer players and as much as we hate to see our beloved pking class get adjusted it really needs to happen.
We can pretty much round anything and dependent upon race eat pots like they are going out of style.

My suggestion to fix this problem is to lower the backstab multipler to what a brigands is but also add a blood letting skill that drains HP 5 HP per tick for 60 secs. This kinda puts Slayers inline with Zerkers the cloest DPS to them which use the same armor and arent able to hide from DPS. I have heard rumor of search being tampered with and I dont think the /search feature is the problem at all. Also to make Brigands Shine would be to add a poison skill to that class and this game might see more class diversity in events with new ways of playing a class instead of smash f1 then smash f2 or mouse clicky. lol

I think this is a great idea it would level out the spike damage and still allow slayers to put out serious numbers but it would help eliminate the rounding of other classes. You could also fix it where bleeding will not stop until fully healed or you can't hide if you are bleeding there are unlimited options that this could bring to the table.

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Terron » Sat May 12, 2018 12:43 am

you wont like it if you shield block or absorb most of a hit and still bleed to death from 3-400 dmg lol
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby anthriel » Sat May 12, 2018 12:07 pm

Terron wrote:well u can use my chanter if u like but most fights without pots ur playing a game where you hope absorbed hits will defeat unaffects. at 15 wisdom its pretty much 50/50. 17 wisdom (goblin equiv) u hit around 40% overall counting fizzles/resists similar to melee mage has 0 burst effect u either hit 7-9x really quick or u die. this tends to be mostly rng. you can hit 10/10 or miss all 10. 1v1 isnt really a problem or chanter as much as it is a dm.(see below)

the problem isnt that they do 0 damage. its the fact they have no burst potential and next to none on damage buffs. int song is unrealistic currently as mages tend to not hit that often on anything with mr. minstrel will buff physical attackers. u take a 24 int gnome mage and on avg if they manage 2/4 on an mr character thats 312 approximate damage on avg. potions heal 260. even with bard buffs the damage boost is around 18 extra damage max brings total to about 340. 80 net damage a round with 0 healers present and bard buffs.

lets stop and think...what if they are an elemental or elf chanter? oh right like 15min-30max less damage per hit. now ur getting to the point where pots cover the damage entirely. dm is the same way here they do awful damage. 20 int necro doesnt even see 145 damage with wither.

the lowdown is basically mages are only there to kill 10-12 wisdom characters with seemingly lower end hp tables. be it saurians/drakes or low wis minstrels and some zerks. but lets face facts here zerks are easier to kill with any other viable melee dps class.

my chanter has over 450 kills on it im pretty sure i know what is easy to kill lol. NOT half orcs. i can put money on it that 80+ of my 110+ deaths were exclusively half orc slayers and 60 of those trying to kill them 1v1. it doesnt happen they pot fast and kill me in less than 3 rounds most of the time. sad thing is most of the time they dont even ever get severely wounded. pretty much avoid them entirely unless its a surprise attack when they are wounded.

chanter is a decent support class, but it isnt an effective counter to low mr currently with priests healpower being almost 2x as much as blast/leech. also high dps chanters like gnomes are about as frail as u can get, i dont even sit still on mine. u cant. u will die.

edit: basically all that needs to happen is half orc slayers need to die to mages as fast as saurians do. not really anything drastic here. the highest melee power should die to magic the fastest right?

I dunno man a lot of your complaint sounds like u want chanter to do everything. They are already the best support class in game. Give them better burst dps and they'd be way overpowered. You say chanters can deal 360 damage a round. A lot of melee can't even do that. Melee base hitrate is like 40% and even with great Agi differential u prolly looking 50% at best. That's not too diff from ur Mage hitting 2/4 (which already assumes your opponent has at least 16wis) and some melee class don't even hit for as much as blast does. So instead of comparing chanters to the best burst dps in game (slayer) and crying about it, I think they are already damn useful and pretty powerful when compared to some of the 1 dimensional crappy melee options there are out there. As for slayers, well they do kill efficiently but like JH pointed out they aren't bringing a lot of support for your OAD party so they have their speciality and limits. Should slayers have the bigger MR penalty compared to barbs? Sure I could see that. Could their armour be nerfed to keep with stealthy type lore? Possibly... But I dont really think Rodeos suggested solution to nerf their burst dps (even by delaying some of it) is really that effective for overall game balance. Peace.

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby JadeFalcon » Sat May 12, 2018 1:13 pm

The way I see it, classes should be like this:

Priests (no change)
Bards (no change)
Stalkers (give them abilities that enable them to buff allies, via the pets)
Druids (modify certain abilities - i see these guys as "witches" capable of creating poisons allies can use, for example)

Brigands (no change)
Enchanters (no change - WIS does need to be scaled better)
Guardians - No change. Perhaps rebalance to be weaker in PVP but stronger in PVE
Cavs - modify taunt to be more useful.

Slayers (no change)
Zerkers (more damage - they currently dont dodge, but should hurt alot more)
Ninjas (more damage, inverse situation from zerkers)
Death Mages (more damage)

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Terron » Sat May 12, 2018 1:39 pm

actually i want chanter to be full support - lower damage, stone defense, maybe shields/cure. it would be nice to have a caster that doesn't die in seconds.

but the game as it is has chanter heavier dps than a death mage. so when they tell you magic is the counter to slayer it really doesnt make sense. power sap blind and search until a melee user kills the enemy slayer is not an effective counter lol

as tyrargo says DM is supposed to be the "slayer" of magic it just isnt.

maybe we just need a burst damage magic class that can round half orcs occasionally. dunno. but atm its currently easier to log on your own slayer to fight other slayers than it is to use a glass shelled caster.

i only think magic needs to scale better because most races are imo high mr, even the lower tier of these (goblin) resist 18/20 in koths vs mages.

guardians i would say are weaker pvp than pve already. they do however have a niche. stand there and heal themselves while slayer/zerk/druid sit behind you and kill or ff without worry. maybe protect shouldnt be 100%? i dunno, if it wasnt 100% it would make them even harder to kill imo.

stalkers need help but pretty much roped into the same calibre as dm/chanter. great 1v1 class without pots. lacks everywhere else.
i always thought pet skills should be heavily int dependent. so if u want best pets u need chr and high int and pets are your main source of damage. or you can go the opposite and be high dps but have fodder pets.

cavs should be able to use 2 handers in 1 hand or get a bonus on shield ac for deflects. taunt should steal enemy attacks randomly in group fights aswell.

zerkers can remain glass but i think they should be able to dual wield 2 handers for an extra stam but get -1 attack agi when doing so. either they need lethal rounding power or they need some form of physical damage negation. probably around 25. or both. it doesnt fit in group "target zerkers in pvp because they suck" it should be target zerks because "omg im scurred"
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Reaper » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Idea 1
Attack someone while hidden the same way you can attack an enchanter who is invisible(fixes attack and hide, also fixes moshes)

Idea 2
Hide timer so that a Slayer can only hide once per round. Timer starts after backstab or after being found.(Fixes almost everything tbh while not gimping them badly)

Idea 3
Guardians lose protection on a class if it hides(I think this is a good fix but doesn't really fix events or anything pking wise)

Idea 4
FF through protect(also good idea but still doesn't fix events or anything pking wise)

Idea 5
Backstab takes 3 stamina and get it at 25, lose dual wield but keep damage bonus so can equip shield since vulnerable after attack, get a crit chance bonus like barb and thief on attacks to make lvling easier and potential for slightly higher stab to compensate for one stab(This fixes a lot but seems over complicated when there are easier fixes)

A culmination of ideas from several people in Discord.

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Terron » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:52 pm

create a new class or 2, delete slayers, gift each slayer user a free 25er for each slayer they lost.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Re: Slayers and how to fix.

Postby Styx » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:45 am

Slayers, take away duel wield and adjust so they use bows, this gives more use for bows in game, it's inline that way as brigs

Chanters loose sap

New hex class warlock/witch hex foes and magic class slayer

Ranger pets buff party

Druids, make animale form more useful, can /pounce xxx monster to attack ,,, special attack here lol

Edit. Don't delete slayers

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