DEATH MAGES

killa
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DEATH MAGES

Postby killa » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:38 pm

Any plans on revamping them anymore or is it how it is after update? They hit less leech alot less and armor is garbage. I didnt play it before had hopes now I def wont be playing it. Just wondering if anyone else noticed how ruined they are besides me? well i know some did i asked a few people but is anything going to be done about it? or is it goin to be horrible like this for a long while? Almost unplayable cant even oad with that pathetic AC and 50% of the leech it used to be :x

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NiteHawk
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby NiteHawk » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:44 am

killa wrote:Any plans on revamping them anymore or is it how it is after update? They hit less leech alot less and armor is garbage. I didnt play it before had hopes now I def wont be playing it. Just wondering if anyone else noticed how ruined they are besides me? well i know some did i asked a few people but is anything going to be done about it? or is it goin to be horrible like this for a long while? Almost unplayable cant even oad with that pathetic AC and 50% of the leech it used to be :x


I mean MR didn't change for a long time now bar some slight changes, not 50%, and damage was buffed. I do intend on adding more to them though. There is an issue right now where things cycle around though. Before magic ruled because everyone used non MR, now alot of players are using MR chars. Eventually it might switch back over to high agi/low wis chars etc. The problem (as I see it.) is that most people screamed they were 'op' and now they scream they aren't, yet I have barely touched them in terms of MR, and certainly not touched when they screamed both occurrences.

It is kind of like divinity swapping too. I.E. When alot of fire characters are out, its smart to go water, when there are alot of water characters, its' smart to go lightning.

The worry is that if we buff them to combat high MR (which generally they'll be rougher to fight someone with ~18 MR anyways) you break races that have no MR at all, etc. You can't just change things stupidly. That's how we get into messes to begin with.

P.S. This doesn't mean I'm not all for changing them, but need to actually sit down and spend time with looking at it.

killa
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby killa » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:38 pm

Just up leech again. and do nothing else. and i think they will be right on point. The lesser armor is managable but they need a way to keep hp up (leech)

killa
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby killa » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:15 pm

BRING THE DMS BACK BRING TH EDMS BACK

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Kruell
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby Kruell » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:50 pm

killa wrote:Just up leech again. and do nothing else. and i think they will be right on point. The lesser armor is managable but they need a way to keep hp up (leech)

This might be a good idea. Leech eats the mana. Death mages used to be able to go without 6 stacks of potions in their inventory due to leech but now it just doesn't do enough to matter. Would be good if multiple people posted their take on DMs though so we get more input. I know one person who has quit playing their DM due to changes but I'd rather hear from people who have given it a go and tested the limits of the class.

I think leech heals 10% of the damage it does. Damage was raised for Leech. Even though more damage in done, less is returned on heal. DMs have very high mana costs for their spells. Personally I think they are out of balance and need to be looked at but that can be said for many classes. Perhaps a change with other spells or alterations would help distinguish them.
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NiteHawk
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby NiteHawk » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Kruell wrote:
killa wrote:Just up leech again. and do nothing else. and i think they will be right on point. The lesser armor is managable but they need a way to keep hp up (leech)

This might be a good idea. Leech eats the mana. Death mages used to be able to go without 6 stacks of potions in their inventory due to leech but now it just doesn't do enough to matter. Would be good if multiple people posted their take on DMs though so we get more input. I know one person who has quit playing their DM due to changes but I'd rather hear from people who have given it a go and tested the limits of the class.

I think leech heals 10% of the damage it does. Damage was raised for Leech. Even though more damage in done, less is returned on heal. DMs have very high mana costs for their spells. Personally I think they are out of balance and need to be looked at but that can be said for many classes. Perhaps a change with other spells or alterations would help distinguish them.


That's why we kind of dropped the costs a good deal for mana too (even more ratio wise then we dropped them MP wise.). Mana is meant to be used up. You are supposed to use food/drinks in between combat which makes it dirt cheap. If you want to speed up this process, that's kind of on you. I can understand it being a bit too high, but it's not far off where it should be. There is 0 point if you can keep your mana up constantly with no faults or issues in combat. You can't have potions high because you make 1vs1 worthless. You might as well just remove mana if you guys feel like you should be always topped up with no issues in combat if it makes no difference and drinking potions results in a topped of 100% every time. Might as well make everything a skill instead and ditch mana/spells.

I'd assume MP is around ~450 for most general spell casters (and probably closer to 500) which is 56 hits before using 1 potion, or 14 rounds, then around 6 rounds per potion.. The idea for potions/mana are a combat item, not a out of combat thing unless you have a lot of money to spend and just don't care. I'm pretty sure though if you do use potions, you won't be negative still, but you won't have so much 'extra coin'.

I also wanted to see about adding more utility to them too though. That is another idea we're trying to do/more spells/etc.There is an issue with leech. AKA if you make it too high, you can't stop this for 1vs1 because they negate all damage.

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Lateralus
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby Lateralus » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:31 pm

I’d like to see leech and a pure damage spell split up.

I’d like to see leech do say 50-100 damage and leech 100% what you hit for. (Yes it’s a lot of leech damage but you are sacrificing damage. only dealing 200-400 damage around so in 1v1 should be balanced)

On top of that give them a blast or a renamed blast like spell that would do slightly more damage but cost more. Honesty just giving them blast + having wither gives them more damage than sorc anyways.

Also if they kill a monster OR player with a direct damage spell that spells damage restores health to the DM.

Say you hit a bandit for 200 damage points and that kills it you gain 200 health.

You cast blast at a bandit for 200 damage killing it and consuming it’s soul restoring 200 health points.

This would really help with the Pve side of things and make them interesting to use in PvP. Really set them apart and make them a bit more fun / tactical to use.

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daedroth
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby daedroth » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:32 am

Lateralus wrote:I’d like to see leech and a pure damage spell split up.

I’d like to see leech do say 50-100 damage and leech 100% what you hit for. (Yes it’s a lot of leech damage but you are sacrificing damage. only dealing 200-400 damage around so in 1v1 should be balanced)

On top of that give them a blast or a renamed blast like spell that would do slightly more damage but cost more. Honesty just giving them blast + having wither gives them more damage than sorc anyways.

Also if they kill a monster OR player with a direct damage spell that spells damage restores health to the DM.

Say you hit a bandit for 200 damage points and that kills it you gain 200 health.

You cast blast at a bandit for 200 damage killing it and consuming it’s soul restoring 200 health points.

This would really help with the Pve side of things and make them interesting to use in PvP. Really set them apart and make them a bit more fun / tactical to use.


That sounds interesting.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Terron
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby Terron » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 am

leech was broken in 1v1s. thats why you did 1300 damage to a gnome and still lost.

i tend to agree with the pve side of it. dms get rocked. kinda the opposite of chanter here, chanters are really resilient but have no damage and fizzle/unaffect like a mofo. in the end they both gulp pots. but they arent the only ones, logged on my bard last night(first time really training it since update). try to do a daily on that pos and almost every round it needed a potion and multiple support heals to survive. thats real nice when u have humming purple everything and get destroyed by training monsters.

i really think the main issue is the npc damage.(also drop max stamina to level 22 or 23)
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NiteHawk
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Re: DEATH MAGES

Postby NiteHawk » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:53 pm

Terron wrote:leech was broken in 1v1s. thats why you did 1300 damage to a gnome and still lost.

i tend to agree with the pve side of it. dms get rocked. kinda the opposite of chanter here, chanters are really resilient but have no damage and fizzle/unaffect like a mofo. in the end they both gulp pots. but they arent the only ones, logged on my bard last night(first time really training it since update). try to do a daily on that pos and almost every round it needed a potion and multiple support heals to survive. thats real nice when u have humming purple everything and get destroyed by training monsters.

i really think the main issue is the npc damage.(also drop max stamina to level 22 or 23)


I agree with NPC damage. Something I said earlier was that NPC damage for leveling is a bit high because there was a double nerf (To potion amount and then the speed of npcs). We only accounted for the speed of NPCs, not the damage too. Something we need to look at.

Fizzle rates. I mean, they are the same for the high spells though. So bad luck :>


Lateralus wrote:I’d like to see leech and a pure damage spell split up.

I’d like to see leech do say 50-100 damage and leech 100% what you hit for. (Yes it’s a lot of leech damage but you are sacrificing damage. only dealing 200-400 damage around so in 1v1 should be balanced)

On top of that give them a blast or a renamed blast like spell that would do slightly more damage but cost more. Honesty just giving them blast + having wither gives them more damage than sorc anyways.

Also if they kill a monster OR player with a direct damage spell that spells damage restores health to the DM.

Say you hit a bandit for 200 damage points and that kills it you gain 200 health.

You cast blast at a bandit for 200 damage killing it and consuming it’s soul restoring 200 health points.

This would really help with the Pve side of things and make them interesting to use in PvP. Really set them apart and make them a bit more fun / tactical to use.


We could split up leech to a damage spell and a sap spell. I.E. a direct 1 to 1 spell. Hit for 50, gain 50HP. 100 damage seems high but I'm not sure. But they could get a straight up damage spell instead and then a leech. At least that way in 1vs1 combat you could probably restrict it too. But as Terron said leech was broken before. It's not really fair to be able to deal 200 damage and stay at top HP. It's something that would need more talks here though.

Reviving health per kill they get is a interesting one and would have to be thought out. It would also help them too. I would probably base it on the enemies HP and it would revive a small portion which should scale OK. I'd probably throw it for any deaths, including PVP too as it's easier to control then a 200damage leech spell.

I also intended to have them be able to revive people that removes -1 sickness (I.E. would have a cooldown of 5-10 minutes) but not sure how I feel about it yet. They obviously can't just insta revive everyone as that would be a nightmare.


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