Leveling-group healers get the shaft

[roxxgui]

Would you be happy if you got 6k/aid?

In my hyopthetical I was implying that healing a target gave xp roughly equal to that of normal grinding, in which case I'd think the potential to avoid "real" leveling is pretty high.

I would for sure be happier, im not saying aid should be 6k, but lets pretend the 10 mana cost heal gave 5k heal, and aid gave 6-7k. Capping the exp that heals can give, 5k per 10 mana healing and 10k per 8 mana damaging, damaging would still be better(and it should) but i would like grouping with damage dealer friends and just keep healing them while we are farming, spend roughly the same amount of mana (25% more) get 50% less exp than i would hitting the creature but it would be ok since clerics need less to get to level 25. But it would make healing the group at all times worth it and fun for the purpose you leveled a cleric, he is a support with 0 in combat buffs , he is a strong healer, so healing in a group is what you aim for and it would be fun to do that while leveling and be worh it.

( All those numbers are based on my experience as a level 22 cleric)

[daedroth]

As Folder said it is really hard to get the balance correct for player based healing experience. Too much and people will exploit it, too little and its not really worth it. If possible heal at the end of the fight (may not be practical - depends on the damage being done by the beasties and the group size. I was in a group in the GY,(there were 4 of us I think 19 - 21 level) and things were getting wiped out so quick the end of combat healing would have been no problem).

I think healing experience is like hit damage experience (so some calculation based on healer level and hit points healed, which is about the only way you can handle it really)?

[roxxgui]

As Folder said it is really hard to get the balance correct for player based healing experience. Too much and people will exploit it, too little and its not really worth it. If possible heal at the end of the fight (may not be practical - depends on the damage being done by the beasties and the group size. I was in a group in the GY,(there were 4 of us I think 19 - 21 level) and things were getting wiped out so quick the end of combat healing would have been no problem).

I think healing experience is like hit damage experience (so some calculation based on healer level and hit points healed, which is about the only way you can handle it really)?

I am not saying it is easy but as i mentioned before you wouldnt exploit it dude, WHY would you spend 10 mana to get 4k xp or 20 mana to get 6k ( those are buffed numbers to like 3x what it gives right now) if you can spend 8 get 10-12k and the KS bonus.....i dont think i am getting my point across somehow... but ok.

[daedroth]

Well... although personally I do not think it is feasible (and it would be pretty damn boring). You could sit one step away (or even inside and nip out) from a safe location and heal with relatively no danger (and from level 4 at that - I suppose if it is scaled based on caster level and health healed that wouldn't be too much of a problem).

[Folder]

We're not on different pages here. I think 6k for an average aid is fine. As I mentioned I think if the xp were comparable to what you'd do with a ray or smite (think 10-12k per action on a level22+ character) then I think it would be exploited, I don't think it would be exploited at ~6k.

[roxxgui]

We're not on different pages here. I think 6k for an average aid is fine. As I mentioned I think if the xp were comparable to what you'd do with a ray or smite (think 10-12k per action on a level22+ character) then I think it would be exploited, I don't think it would be exploited at ~6k.

Exactly, the comparison i made was you spend 25% MORE mana to get 50% LESS xp healing in a group, instead of spending 220% more mana and getting 80% less exp (wich is right now, smite 8 mana 10-12k xp, aid 20 mana 2-2.5k xp).

Thats a good amount in my opinion, what i want is for example: a barbarian friend of mine wants to go to dreadlands to farm get some drops and some exp, i can go with him, do very low ammounts of damage (70-90) per spell on a non undead and get 8-9k xp, or i could help him healing him with medium heal for 4k and large heal (that costs double the ammount of mana of any of my spells , currently 20) for 5-6k xp and be worth actualy doing the healer part in groups.
Because as of right now, all i want to do is rush 25 killing undeads and then group with friends since xp wont matter at 25, it would be fun to heal groups while leveling and not level at 1/5 of the speed and spending double the mana and wait for 25 to start doing the support role.

I can get to 25 without healing in groups, it is boring cause it is always killing the same undead from GY since level 20, but doable since i did from 18-23 there and still am, all i wanted was to have the option of doing the support roll and be atleast 50% the speed of a damage dealer leveling wise.

[Thi]

I'd tend to agree with the point that when you go into dreadlands pallys and clerics fall off exp wise, they gain exp at a much slower rate due to smite not being useful anymore and you having a lower hit chance / smaller damage then most of other classes.

I haven't gotten my cleric to 23 yet, but his numbers and percentages are correct (roxxgui), staying in GY is way more viable option than going into dreadlands, which would gimp item farming for clerics and they would end up with the short end of the stick.

Healing other people is also annoying as hell, so, for lvling purposes (everyone expects clerics to heal them) it might make it a bit better exp wise otherwise there's no point to it.

[NiteHawk]

The values were adjusted now. Some samples

Level 20 you, level 20 person being healed.
(10-leveldifference)* yourlevel*0.04*amounthealed was the original. So some examples of current:

So same level characters, lets say level 20:
10*20*0.04*270 = 2160 EXP

Level 23 characters healing another level 23.:
10*23*0.04*270 = 2484 EXP

Level 23 character healing a level 22 character:
9*23*0.04*270 = 2235 EXP


If you are higher level, you only get max, other way around lowers it. Prevents some exploits. Now the new formula:

Modifier is 0.22
The level difference effects it less. (half)

Again two level 20 characters:
5*20*0.21*270 = 5670 EXP

Two level 23 characters:
5*23*0.21*270 = 6520 EXP

A level 23 character healing a level 22 character:
4.5*23*0.21*270 = 5868 EXP



Will be updated shortly.

For actual heals on undead, it uses the same formula as attack does. So you'll probably gain more then the above I would assume. But this at least gives healing a decent amount now.

[roxxgui]

The values were adjusted now. Some samples

Level 20 you, level 20 person being healed.
(10-leveldifference)* yourlevel*0.04*amounthealed was the original. So some examples of current:

So same level characters, lets say level 20:
10*20*0.04*270 = 2160 EXP

Level 23 characters healing another level 23.:
10*23*0.04*270 = 2484 EXP

Level 23 character healing a level 22 character:
9*23*0.04*270 = 2235 EXP


If you are higher level, you only get max, other way around lowers it. Prevents some exploits. Now the new formula:

Modifier is 0.22
The level difference effects it less. (half)

Again two level 20 characters:
5*20*0.21*270 = 5670 EXP

Two level 23 characters:
5*23*0.21*270 = 6520 EXP

A level 23 character healing a level 22 character:
4.5*23*0.21*270 = 5868 EXP



Will be updated shortly.

For actual heals on undead, it uses the same formula as attack does. So you'll probably gain more then the above I would assume. But this at least gives healing a decent amount now.

Havent tested it yet but the numbers seem right to me, its a good change in my opinion making healers more viable in non undead farm groups. Thank you everyone for taking time to read it , share experiences and Nitehawk for giving it a shot.

[Thi]

This is a very good change.

NH, us math geeks appreciate "the maths" posted, keep it up.