Drakebloods need love?

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Inverno
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Drakebloods need love?

Postby Inverno » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:41 am

The char i use more actually is a Drake Ninja. So i started to compare it with a Dark Elf (focusing only on meelee):

Dark Elves have -1 str, -1 end, -2 chr, +8 wis, -4ac, infravision

At end, looks like the -1 str and end doenst hinder the Dark Elf, but the lack of MR hurt Drakes alot.

The recent MR nerf on ninjas made things even worse. And for cavs, the 18 chr + MR still seens to work better than the 20chr the Drakes have. The natural AC on drakes doenst seens to be significant.

I just noticed that when you chose Drake over DE, you always lose. Im missing something? Does Drakes need a buff or a new ability to make then valuable?

PS: In a recent past, Drakes got a nerf (-1 end, -2 wis).
Inverno - Saurian Priest
--
Lutz - Drakeblood Ninja
Kim - Elf Ninja
Mai - Elemental Ninja
Olrox - Dwarf DeathMage
Tumbizaletalayer - Half Orc Guardian
Bastian - Goblin Cavalier Bark Bark!
Neymar - Saurian Stalker
Mime - Saurian Minstrel

Rafael
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Rafael » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:43 am

O dont have a Drake :(

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Lateralus
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Lateralus » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:17 am

I’d like to see drakes and Saurian to get +1 end back at the very least.

Imo you can make a de, goblin or halfling with a tiny bit less damage and be able to withstand a chanter.

There is not much reason to take a drake / lizard over a goblin / de.

Drakes Saurian and orcs should beat the balance roles in melee most the time if we want the whole Rock Paper Scissors and they don’t atm.

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daedroth
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby daedroth » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:06 am

I always pictured them as being more robust tbh.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Terron
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Terron » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:48 am

drakes saurians halforcs and to a lesser extent dwarves need combat boosts vs high mr elves etc. been saying this for a long time. dark elf needs lower str so does goblin. and if anything drakes need more hps.

ive always pictured drake as having huge combat balance and superiority and no skills whatsoever. like 21 22 20 10 10 18 and a +1 would fit them perfectly.

saurians need more power and a hp drawback to set them apart. however their use of skill oriented things needs a small boost.
23 22 17 16 14 14. make this race mean again.

half orcs need something aswell. when they are on a class outside of a slayer chunking 600s out of people this race gets gobbled up by any character with agility. this ones a hard balance because anything you do to help a half orc oddity like ranger/mini you are putting alot of power into the hands of a cavalier/slayer. im leaning towards them getting more strength and a huge armor buff(like 15-20). because face it these fkers are almost 8 ft tall and their armor huge. 25 19 22 14 11 14. they also need 3 allocation points left after a +1 again. wis dropped to compensate.

Dwarves are less of a problem they are pretty well rounded for group fights, oads, etc. just lacking 1v1 because their damage is pretty low and they just dont hit. seeing as they are great outside of 1v1 i think its more fitting to just give them a 10% damage boost versus elves (5% vs half elves. this includes 10% versus dark elves). this would be like lowering hps on the primary melee classes used in 1v1s and allow dwarf to win sometimes on their tanky health.

(ofc if u do ll this the goblin/dark elf doesnt need nerfed.)
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Kruell
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Kruell » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:09 pm

(Contextual Backstory)
When we created drakeblood we based them on a certain thought process. I won't bother getting into the Lore of how they were created, but they were meant to be weak against magic but rugged and tough in combat. In fact, that was one of the major selling points of the race, no magic resistance. We played around a lot with the statistics and I know they have been changed since the start but they were considered pretty well balanced in what they can become and what they can do well. I actually wanted to get rid of Saurian and let the Drakeblood take their spot. As they were, it could easily have been done. Sadly, some people loved their saurians too much to even take a renamed/slightly altered replacement.

I'd be curious to see the values of what actual character races people play. I only have a couple of drakebloods and they do well against anything except spellcaster but they don't dominate in melee over magic resistant races like they should. I'd love to see them get a boost to End to make them stand out more as a different race. Right now they just seem like "Saurian Lite" for anything except Stalker/Cav. Giving them a larger boost to armor would be the easiest but I think that would make certain classes too powerful as a Drakeblood. Raising their End seems the best balance since it raises their survivability without overpowering them in combat or making certain class choices meta.
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Terron
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Terron » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:35 pm

yeah saurian and drake really similar. problem i have with the whole system is melee characters that devote to entirely all combat and no mr have no benefit over a dark elf which is great in combating magic and melee types. i think were well past being able to balance this shit perfectly. not going to be 50/50 everywhere on the board people. mages kill lizards, high mr renders mages useless, all thats missing is drakes and saurians and horcs raping mr melee races like elf dark elf and goblin. not really much else to say.
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box"

this game is like sim ant
zerg the red ants with more black ants

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Lateralus
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Lateralus » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Terron wrote:drakes saurians halforcs and to a lesser extent dwarves need combat boosts vs high mr elves etc. been saying this for a long time. dark elf needs lower str so does goblin. and if anything drakes need more hps.

ive always pictured drake as having huge combat balance and superiority and no skills whatsoever. like 21 22 20 10 10 18 and a +1 would fit them perfectly.

saurians need more power and a hp drawback to set them apart. however their use of skill oriented things needs a small boost.
23 22 17 16 14 14. make this race mean again.

half orcs need something aswell. when they are on a class outside of a slayer chunking 600s out of people this race gets gobbled up by any character with agility. this ones a hard balance because anything you do to help a half orc oddity like ranger/mini you are putting alot of power into the hands of a cavalier/slayer. im leaning towards them getting more strength and a huge armor buff(like 15-20). because face it these fkers are almost 8 ft tall and their armor huge. 25 19 22 14 11 14. they also need 3 allocation points left after a +1 again. wis dropped to compensate.

Dwarves are less of a problem they are pretty well rounded for group fights, oads, etc. just lacking 1v1 because their damage is pretty low and they just dont hit. seeing as they are great outside of 1v1 i think its more fitting to just give them a 10% damage boost versus elves (5% vs half elves. this includes 10% versus dark elves). this would be like lowering hps on the primary melee classes used in 1v1s and allow dwarf to win sometimes on their tanky health.

(ofc if u do ll this the goblin/dark elf doesnt need nerfed.)


Yea I think i would agree with most of the above. I think dwarves are pretty good but under played really however if you give orcs a boost they prob need one. id prob just say another str the boosts over other races gets a bit complex but I guess it depends.

anthriel
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby anthriel » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:05 pm

Dont own a Drake 25er (working on one now) but wasnt aware that there was much wrong with them... they seem better than saurians for ninjas (generally +100hp for -1str which means u can survive much better) and ive seen several who main a drake ninja do quite well with it in group or 1v1 pvp. Obviously they do get destroyed by magic but you cant have everything. The drake combo of 19end + 20chr allows for quite a high HP for something that also has 21 str and possibly 22 agi imho. Sure a DE can get 18 Wis but then they wont be investing in upping Chr and their HPs will be around the 1000 mark (not that high). 100 HP makes a big diff in this game (esp where Pots now only heal for max 200 and in groupfights 100HP can be the diff between sitting in temple and your priest getting their heals in on you).

I think if any race needs love its Elf. They have no melee benefits compared to HE/Ling/DE and are they are pretty much not the first choice for anything (even with pure mages, many ppl tend to prefer gnome or ele etc)

Dan
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Re: Drakebloods need love?

Postby Dan » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:01 pm

I think Inverno may be right because of recent change in armor values.

6 ac doesn't matter as it did before. I think it should be raised in same proportion as armor did (same with saurians and dwaves).

That would make them back in the game for sure.


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