New Guild and Boss Systems.

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New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Rodeo » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Sadly Alot of this knowledge has been lost over the years but I am also gonna reach out and try to get more information Via the Facebook Page they have set up for this game.

With guilds its broken up into 4 philosophies each adds specific bonuses to the characters in the Guild.(also make it cost to get the bonuses per update via gold deduction and even have more options to upgrade bonuses by purchaseing thm with more gold!) Wonderful idea gold sink!

We have Fighter-Ninja Slayer Zerker Brigand that could be defined as DPS.

We have Mage-Chanter Deathmage Druid and Priest

We have Tank type classes also that Cav Guardian and Mini would fall under.

Now to form Guilds and bonuses upon creation of a guild you have option to select what type of guild you wanna have.
War guild: 5%damage/dodge/armor ect
Body Guild: this can add 5% HP armor/make mobs attack you more for Tanking Bosses.(maybe future boss/mob aggro system?)
Mind Guild: 5% more MP or int ect
Fortune: 5% more exp/gold/drops stackable with scrolls ect. Great fr newbies and people who farm/exp.

These are just examples but you get the idea now make the Guild Limit a max of 10. Do away with one guild per account so that people who have all different classes can put their chars into appropiate guilds which would promote guild diversity of different players working together.

Now the 2nd part of this fix. Scrap the current boss system and spacing bosses out through the day. 24 hour random spawns. Also you have to forget everything about party limites and nix that idea.
Make 4 Boss Tiers.
Tier 1 Green Bosses that drops Green Gear. 8-10 Bosses. Requires 5 people to run
Tier 2 Blue Bosses Drops Blue Gear 8-10 of these Bosses. 10 people to run.
Tier 3 Bosses Drops Purple Gear 4-5 of these Bosses. 15 people to run.
Tier 4 Bosses Drops Orange Gear 2-3 of these bosses. 20+ people to run.

This system you can easily add more bosses into a certian tier if the need arises for it. Now say we have 2 guilds that are full of members and but together online 10 are online total or less in both those guilds...guilds like tormented and utopia could fill these roles to do bosses if numbers are lacking promoting unity and a common goal. While i like us trying to attract new players this new system would also be very friendly to the new players we are trying to attract....if we ever get a mobile client up and going one person can get 5 people to join and start thier own guild and jump right into bossing with the community once they reach max level.

Right now we got Easy bosses that take no longer than 15-30 mins at most to complete and being able to aquire the best items ingame in a matter of time is a joke. Right now we gotta do seacial events to attact people to play we got to do things to keep people wanting to log on not just throw rares out to get our vets to log on and play.

Not saying to use my numbers or anything and i know this would require a great deal of work but its a good system and I have seen it in use before and it worked great and the only reason the game that these ideas are based on isnt around anymore is cause the creator didnt wanna keep it going any longer.

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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby anthriel » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:48 pm

I'm generally supportive of Part 1 of this idea... i mean i think there's other ways to achieve similar aims but this seems as good a way as any. (almost any of the recurring suggestions we have is an improvement on what we currently have)

I'm not 100% sure i understand Part 2 of the idea about tiered bosses (ive never played Revelation).... if i interpret correctly you are suggesting we scrap the OAD loot system and just have bunch of tiered worldwalkers (eg green-item worldwakers, orange-item worldwalkers) etc spawning at random times throughout the day. If this is the case then i also generally like and support such an idea. (i wouldnt support it if you meant making the current OAD bosses green tier or blue tier etc as i think the OAD system is broken to a large degree anyway).

The only issue i have with Part 2 is the "ratio of player effort to rewards" issue if the drops from the bosses are a single blue/purple/orange tier item etc... --> such would seem to cause the same problem as we are having with the Dragons previously/currently... e.g. if you need 15-20ppl to run it and it only drops 1 good item at the end then how do these 15-20 ppl from diverse guilds etc split this one item? (theres enough problems now with 15-20ppl witihn a single superguild trying to split scales)... Seems like we would run into the exact problem ppl r talking about with the current dragon system here viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2475 (and even that is with multiple scales rather than 1 item dropped).... i think if you do have this Part 2 loot system you'd need to have some sort of companion mechanism such that 1 dropstealer doesnt walk away happy with the other 19/20 ppl emptyhanded/pissed off.... or with the largest of the smaller factions waiting till the others help get the boss down to critical and then killing them all so they dont have to share the loot etc... otherwise it just re-manifests the problems with the current factional system & toxicity that accompanies that..... perhaps some sort of crafting system for these worldwalker drops (like dragon weapons) and with some scales going straight into inventories of participants (without paralysis) would be a way to stop this.... i mean you could also prevent PVP from happening but that could be less interesting... shrugs.


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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Hanibal » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 am

Or we get rid of the whole thing with having to be in a guild and need to be logged on at diff times of the day to kill bosses and just have random world walkers that spawn at random times through out the day and make it so norm mobs drop loot/material for crafting?

I mean unless you have nothing better to do all day then sit in front of a machine watching the clock this game really isnt for you, its the current guild system and the highly sensitive people in this world that has killed this game and made people quit or get banned.

Nobody wants to play what they think is a game full of adults and have to watch every little thing they say out of fear of being banned for something one person might think is offensive and lose everything they spent hours working for and not everyone wants to be in a super guild ran by ego maniacs who need those egos stroked as much as possible.

Instead of looking for new ideas look at old one's from other games that are popular, swear filters in every chat channel for those sensitive people, crafting, quests everyone can do solo, login rewards, daily or monthly events, exp boosts for everyone even if you are not premium (i mean drop ables) etc etc etc.....

Edit: Would also like to add not having the ability to log multiple chars in a game where you need to grind 25 levels kinda sucks for someone who is new or hates lvling, the pros to this far out weigh the cons not only for lvling but for farming and pvp, we want players to do stuff not not do stuff.
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Lorelle » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Krang called it, sadly no one will listen. I only log in to kill mort and bin the spectral stones and kill burglars now, there’s literally nothing to do as a solo player.

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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:23 pm

lol i disagree. theres quests that result in items. oads you can solo. high risk but you get all the rewards if you succeed but yeah its time consuming. also im sure more crafting type things are coming with professions.

i mean , sure u cant go zerg seta keys solo and whatnot but there is "some" stuff to do thats worthwhile and fun.

not saying theres enough content because there isnt. we need more content, and a big reason why, is set times. every last person (or biggest guild at the time) can just log on for 5 minutes and "take" the oad or keys from the rest of the players. the system doesnt promote playing the game imo. then on top of that the oads require 3-5 people. we used to have 40 people log in. so 4-5 of them win 75% of the keys by being in the largest group and the same 4-5 run 90% of the bosses with the keys they won.(usually europeans hitting all the oads with a perfect system of 5-12 pm in their timezone). so you have 30 -35 players bored every single day.

what we need is:

1)guild system removed - let people keep the halls, keep the discords keep the chats etc. but remove the spying features of guild and let people group with whoever they want and "leaders" wouldnt be the wiser.
- if you dont want it removed it definitely needs balanced where droves of shells can be asked to log on at set times to hoard keys
- alot more bosses on random timers (atleast semi random)

2)need those professions in

3)need never ending level progression. (i.e. you hit level 25 and after that each large chunk of exp you acquire gives small benefits to your character. whether it be 5 hps or whatever.) character level 25 epic level 1 or something
--could have a perk system for post 25
--need a pp/cm type system for achievements and specific "challenges".

4) less alts - do a server buyback and cutdown program. (this cuts down the hoarding of items, re-balances a sustainable market and adds a pick and choose factor the game is lacking. youd have to be wiser in your decisions on what to level for events/oads/pvp/pve etc.
5) lower drop rates on blue items to like 25% (rebalance the purples and greens) reinstate a viable trade market and need for blues and purples, greens should be the only 100% drops.

6) revamp the armor system. possibly double the negation and lower the absorbs. make it work instead of being rng. weapon tiers add damage 100% they dont have percentile chance to work like absorbing.
-your cuirass and helmet slot should fully negate the bonuses that a weapon would give. (what i mean by this is if your character has all green items and i hit you with a green weapon for 130-155 damage, if we were both in all purples it should stay the exact same as a purple weapon vs purple armors and do roughly the same 130-155 damage. (atm i put on higher weapons and hit more and more damage and you only have a better chance on an rng roll to absorb.)

7) add a random mods and random "grade" effect on weapons and armors. (so in the right circumstances greens with super mods may still have a value if you happened to get extremely lucky or farmed for a long period of time)

8) crafting of set abilities on items(think prefix and suffix was proposed)
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:46 am

I do agree with some of this though. I do think guilds should be limited. I don't know about having several guilds at once. I think there are problems with it and if you allow several guilds at once you'll never truly split people up. With one guild per account at least 'eventually' alliances will dissolve. I don't think it will be that way if you allow everyone to be in a different guild per player again and split up guilds at the same time. It'll just make them group up 'easier' with no real restrictions. This would only work if alts were somewhat limited, and I'm not really going to limit or lessen the alt count now. In any case bonuses to a guild and small guilds isn't a bad idea though. 10 would be an OK limit with some sort of guild benefit. Maybe since it's locked to one account per we could do 2-3 benefits even.

I get the idea for 20+ people for gear but I don't know how well that would work in the real world. Generally you want 3-4x more players online at any given time to be able to run otherwise it's going to not be probably run. It's maybe something that can be tested once we get more things settled. It also means that you kind of poop on EU or AU people because they'll often have half or less then half the US side. On top of this unless EVERYONE is getting a shiny orange item there will be fights, which result in raging, people not logging off, and then people not running anything together. No one's going to play nice with each other in that amount of people unless there's a large enough playerbase.

I think the better solution is Terrons old ideas of making the game more accessible with more content such as crafting etc. AKA put in some hard work and receive a shiny item, which can be done solo or in very small teams. More content/more things to do after level 25 and another way to get items. I don't think the current OAD system is broke (sorry to say) but I do think there should be other ways to get items as a solo player, and other coop events that do work like what Rodeo was talking about as a 'large group' but something that's event driven and not a 'daily choir'.

However more world walkers, randomness, more events like the devouer that gets people working together is a really good idea. We should even make a chance to 'lose' if they don't work together.

The other issue with 100% random spawn times is people don't have the commitment time to do so. I know you can just say 'f them' but I don't think that's a good idea. Alot of bosses before WERE random spawns and almost no one did them because it constantly required checking and favored the people with larger teams again. It wasn't favored well by the community I mean.

I was kind of tottering on the idea of instance instead, but then we need to promote PVP elsewhere (fixing the crystals, making cities capturable, etc). It would probably allow you to run an instance once per day, but I think we'd have to lower rates and make greens 100%, blues 25%, etc. So you could run A or B whenever. The reason for this is kind of to curb the reason 'for' being in large guilds. Right now it is obvious why. With larger guilds, you can run the OADs, you can survive more when things get dicey in PVP, etc. Sure, there is some other forms like chatting to your mates, but that can be diverted to the global chat channel where you can make your own channels or use global chat. Maybe instances don't need to be the only thing in game though, could keep the current OAD system for some items and then top it off with those, but I don't really know yet on that aspect.

Lack of content is a big reason, but getting people to do it is another. A lot of people either get bullied out by community attacking them every time they do something once they are staffers (AKA once you become staffer even if you didn't have any part of building something you will be targeted by players who rage and spread garbage that either make the staffer go inactive, or quit.) I don't know if we have enough builders right now to progress changes at a steady rate and it's kind of sad.

I want to eventually release lvl 25-50, which is pretty much just 'better' level 25'ers, as obviously if it was level 25 to 50 with the progression currently level 50 chars would kill everything in game. So level 26 might be either a reset with benefits (all 4 attacks still, 5% to all stats or maybe +1 stat) but I was also wanting to bring out branches. I.E two branches per class. A mage could pick a class that either focuses on group attacks or single attacks with level 26+. Things like that. It's still up in the air though. In terms of endless progressing it could 'maybe' be a thing for small benefits but I think there might 'need' to eventually be a end in all honestly.

Multiple chars have always been brought up. I'm not against it but the community was alot of the times. The fear is that this will simply benefit vets more then new players. I.E. a new player will just die quicker as they'll never have two 'alts' like a vet will. Some have a hard time running two, if we release it on FB/etc its gonna be very hard for them to run two, etc. Again I don't mind either way for that one, just projecting what they said, feel free to make another poll attempt on it but I think it would be better to fix what we have using one alt instead. Login benefits and other things isn't a bad idea as well though.

In terms of items with bonuses, that's kind of what we were intending on doing with the 'things to do after level 25 stuff'. This also 'does' mean that green items might be useful in some cases because you'll be able to get a green item with a modifier easier then a purple item. It's in the works anyways. It was the intended reason on why weapons/armor values changed slightly though too.

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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Terron » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:51 am

oad system isnt broke, its just easily manipulated. and then to top it off, it makes 400x as much work for development because a very small handful of players burn through all your content. while the vast majority is left with only exp and attempting trades with a nearly non existent market.

personally id much rather have every purple item be crafts. have the oads only drop greens and crafting materials. obtain rare blue items through quest chains. and craft all purples with the materials gathered through oading and general minibosses/monsters. best part about that is bosses could potentially be ran multiple times per day and some of the bosses could drop the same items.

it would work like;
-kill random npcs in the vicinity. nice got a key yay.
-gather friends
-use key to enter key boss. gather main key. (key bosses respawn very rapidly)
-use main key to main area- boss auto-spawns
-kill boss, gather materials. (bosses could drop things like "shaft core" as a main component of a staff weapon. they could also drop as green blue or purple to correspond to the item it would create or however.)
-repeat alot
-craft purple (orange if hummed)

people hellbent on pvp can use a key at any point and ambush. however it still costs a key. its also less grief involved because bosses can be ran more than once. if you get murdered just farm a new key and try again. this isnt much of a change for pk groups, pretty much every ambush has always costed a key anyway.

at some point there has to be a reason to play the game at anytime throughout the day. crafting and a trade market helps big time here.
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby NiteHawk » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:07 am

Yeah I'll agree with that. The purple items being craft only is a interesting proposition too, Could work long as it's done properly.

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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby daedroth » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:38 am

Terron wrote:... 3)need never ending level progression. (i.e. you hit level 25 and after that each large chunk of exp you acquire gives small benefits to your character. whether it be 5 hps or whatever.) character level 25 epic level 1 or something
--could have a perk system for post 25
--need a pp/cm type system for achievements and specific "challenges".


I don't like the idea of infinite progression, it is one of the things that put me off Diablo 3.
I think there should be something though, and more options that you can pick before you peak out.

If there is a conquest type thing I would recommend sides for the clans to choose from "Kingdom Of Alderra", "Blackspawn Marauders" etc (I wouldn't recommend too many factions). Guilds/players choose the side they want to be on. "Resource Points" can be given for:

Taking control of a Crystal (X amount of points divided among the people on the same side) still there at the end (participation points could be given to those who did damage/healed with a time limit).
Defending a crystal (possibly abuse'able) could be based on how many enemy killed, divided as above OR just keep it simple with crystals controlled giving resource points for as long as they are held and disregard points for taking/defending crystals.
Enemy NPC's/Monsters killed (could be bounties for certain creatures).
Resources gathered (found randomly on map or on enemy NPC's or monsters in general).
OAD completion (items could then just be a bonus).
Resource points divided among accounts of the relevant side?

Resource Points can be spent on (not necessarily them all): buying items/crafting materials/gold/minor buffs.
Some of these (Quests/Resource Gathering) could actually suit solo or small group players better.
Recourse Points could be faction specific gold. That could actually tie in with monsters/npcs dropping faction specific gold (and giving certain monsters a faction they are in).

Could even be faction specific titles earned based on how many resource points you have gained.
Last edited by daedroth on Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Re: New Guild and Boss Systems.

Postby Inverno » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 am

- I dont think removing guilds is a good thing. Ppl will just make guilds outside the game. Guild specialization based on global bonus can be a good thing.

-I like Terron "aod" system idea.

-I dont like infinite lvling idea: even played some muds where its happens (and Diablo 3 lol). One thing i like in Ember is that u can play many chars with different combinations. With infinite lvling, u cant lvl a new char without the feeling you lefting ur main char behind...

-Achievement system would be cool :)
Last edited by Inverno on Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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